Yak Filet & Cat Meat Confessions! Plus: The FDA's Gross Food Secrets & The Great Gnocchi Debate
This episode goes deep on exotic meats and the strange lengths people go to for food — starting with a website that sells, wait for it, opossum tail (just the tail). George and Feel Good Foodie's Yumna Jawad work their way through yak filet mignon, giraffe hot dogs, zebra sausage, and George's own unwitting run-in with cat meat at a childhood baseball game. From there, they get into the FDA's official "food defect levels" — the surprisingly specific amount of mold, insect fragments, and rodent hair the government allows in your ketchup and spices — before tackling the eternal restaurant question: is it ever okay to send food back?
The back half brings in Nocca founders Nicholas Wooller and Alessandro Sitá to talk gnocchi, Italian-American cuisine, and whether Cheetos-flavored gnocchi is a crime or a vibe.
Takeaways:
- Exotic meats are legal to sell in the U.S. as long as the animal isn't endangered and it's processed through an approved system — which is how yak, zebra, giraffe, and lion meat end up for sale online.
- Food is a love language: in Yumna's Lebanese household, "are you hungry?" was how her parents said "I love you."
- The FDA's food defect levels handbook permits things like up to 1,250 insect fragments per 10g of ground oregano, or 11 rodent hairs per 10g of ground sage — before a product gets pulled.
- George's take on restaurant menu language: "whipped," "aioli," and "chiffonade" are just marketing markup on mashed potatoes, mayo, and thin slices.
- Yumna sends food back for real problems (wrong temperature, wrong doneness, allergens) but not for minor stuff like a slightly overcooked side.
- Nocca's founders talk building a modern food brand around gnocchi — including a preservative-free, shelf-stable version developed with university research — and how far Italian-American cuisine has drifted from its regional roots.
Links referenced in this episode:
Companies and people mentioned in this episode:
Transcript
This website sells opossum tail.
Yumna Jawad:Just the tail.
George Duran:Just the tail.
Yumna Jawad:Just the tail.
George Duran:I don't know what happens to the rest of the opossum, but at least you can eat the tail.
Yumna Jawad:Okay, that's good.
George Duran:Welcome back to the Always Hangry podcast, where we break down the way we eat. The good, the bad, and the completely ridiculous. I'm your host, George Duran.
On today's show, we're diving into exotic meats and the one thing we absolutely refuse to put in our mouths. The then we'll uncover tiny contaminants the FDA says are perfectly acceptable.
And is it ever okay to send food back to the kitchen, or are you just asking for trouble? Finally, I sit down with two gnocchi experts to discuss why this little potato pillow has become a serious obsession. Joining me today is Yumna Jawad.
You've probably seen her wildly popular social media posts from Feel Good Foodie, where she's built a following of close to 10 million people making healthy food that looks dangerously craveable. Yumna, thanks a lot for being here.
Yumna Jawad:Thank you so much for having me.
George Duran:Tell me more about your addiction to food. Anyone that comes here has some sort of, like, issues with food, Right? What is your relationship to food?
Yumna Jawad:I am definitely addicted to food. I'm a big foodie, and I think I just grew up with food at the center of our table all the time. As the Lebanese house, we show our love with food.
Breakfast, lunch, and dinner. Everything was made from scratch by my mom. And that's just how she showed us she loved us again.
George Duran:And I told you that my parents were born and raised in Lebanon, so we had a lot of Lebanese Armenian cuisine at home as well. Boy, it was like, the only way to say I love you.
Yumna Jawad:Oh, yeah, absolutely.
George Duran:My parents couldn't say I love you to me.
Yumna Jawad:Oh, yeah. No, no, no.
George Duran:They said, are you hungry?
Yumna Jawad:Yes, exactly. I'll make you some. I'll make you a sandwich. That meant, like, I love you so much. I passed the test. My mom's like, let me make you cake.
George Duran:Yes. What is the ultimate comfort food from your mom? Like, the thing that you need to have.
Yumna Jawad:The thing that I need to have for my mom would be, I think, when she makes a little kibbeh and yogurt sauce.
George Duran:Yes.
Yumna Jawad:But she doesn'. That's why I'm, like, thinking about it. And then also stuffed. Stuffed grape leaves as well.
So those are the two big ones, but they just take so much time, so she doesn't make them in a while.
George Duran:Yeah. Do you Feel that because you have, like so many different palettes, let's put it that way. Lebanese, African, now American.
Who knows what else you have. Do you think your palate is more refined than your average American?
Yumna Jawad:I think so, yeah. I think so for sure.
George Duran:So you're welcoming more flavors from international world, spicy stuff. You're willing to try more things than anyone else, right?
Yumna Jawad:Maybe. Okay.
George Duran:All right. You know what?
Yumna Jawad:I would say I'm more adventurous when it comes to spices and flavors than things.
George Duran:Yeah. What kind of meats did you grow up eating?
Yumna Jawad:We grew up eating very normal meats. There wasn't anything too crazy.
George Duran:There was no oxtail?
Yumna Jawad:No. We didn't eat anything crazy like that. Okay. It was chicken and beef.
George Duran:That's very normal. So what is the most exotic meat you've eaten?
Yumna Jawad:I think I was in Turkey last year and I had beef tongue. I think that was the most exotic as it gets for me.
George Duran:That's common, actually.
Yumna Jawad:It's common, I guess.
George Duran:Yeah, yeah, yeah. They do that a lot here on sandwiches and stuff.
Yumna Jawad:To me, it was like, exotic, but, yeah, that's the most exotic.
George Duran:It's been something that's been living in the mouth of a cow that I don't think I can eat.
Yumna Jawad:Yeah, it was really strange, but it was a Michelin star restaurant. And the waiter whispered to me, like, how amazing it is and that I won't regret it. And I trusted him.
George Duran:Yeah, I've eaten horse meat.
Yumna Jawad:Oh, how's that?
George Duran: t was very common back in the:And so when I went there in the 90s as an exchange program, there was horse meat, horse meat butchers everywhere.
And even today, you can walk into a larger supermarket in France and there's a little section, there's a poultry, the beef, the pork, horse and horse. Horse. Wow.
Yumna Jawad:I didn't know that.
George Duran:And I tasted it.
Yumna Jawad:Yeah.
George Duran:And it was not good. First of all, I was eating horse and I had to try it. I have to try everything. It was a little musty, maybe a little sweet. It was bizarre.
And I think psychologically I was just not. It wasn't hitting me.
Yumna Jawad:What's the texture like?
George Duran:Well, it was a burger, so I don't know what the texture is. True. Like, I hear it's kind of tough as well. So again. But they still have it there. It's a very common thing.
People who seek it in Fact, I spoke to a French butcher one time, and I said, do you have horse meat? And he said, we are starting to respect these animals now. And we stopped serving horse.
Yumna Jawad:Oh, wow.
George Duran:But you can still find them in France. Wow. Interesting. Would you try it?
Yumna Jawad:I would not try it.
George Duran:Yeah. You know, in the United States, I have a really interesting fact here, is that you can actually buy exotic meats.
Yumna Jawad:Yeah.
George Duran:There's a law that allows you to buy exotic meats as long as they're not an endangered species.
Yumna Jawad:Okay.
George Duran:As long as they're not protected by wildlife laws.
Yumna Jawad:Okay.
George Duran:And they must be processed through approved agricultural systems.
Yumna Jawad:Sounds fair.
George Duran:And there are some supermarkets that you can go to and find some interesting meats. Wild Fork, by the way, is one of them. It's a frozen food company, and they send you these meats. They have bison, whole rabbit.
Have you had any of these?
Yumna Jawad:Nope.
George Duran:Okay. Whole rabbit is fantastic. It's very fresh.
Yumna Jawad:Yeah, I've heard good things about rabbit.
George Duran:Ostrich.
Yumna Jawad:Okay.
George Duran:It's lean. It's very nice. Elk, they have alligator and even kangaroo.
Yumna Jawad:Oh, wow.
George Duran:Yeah. Ground kangaroo. Wow.
Yumna Jawad:Ground kangaroo.
George Duran:Yeah. And then I started doing some research, and there's this website online called exoticmeatmarket.com. You've never been there, have you?
Yumna Jawad:Nope, I have not.
George Duran:Okay, so they have, like, the wild boar, the bison, the elk, the alligator. But here are some of the crazier meats that this website has. Ready? Yak filet mignon.
Yumna Jawad:Yak.
George Duran:Yak, yeah. Like llama. Kangaroo. Llama. Pepperoni.
Yumna Jawad:Okay.
George Duran:Yeah. Llama tongue. It's no beef tongue.
Yumna Jawad:Yeah, it's no beef tongue. Might be a little different texture maybe. Yeah, yeah.
George Duran:It's a different size of mouth as well. Yeah. They sell camel meat.
Yumna Jawad:Okay. Camel meat feels like it's something that they do in, like, in the Middle east somewhere. In some certain places, I think they.
George Duran:Have a meat from camels. It's called camelicious Camel New York steaks. It sounds camellicious to me.
Yumna Jawad:Yeah, it sounds camelicious.
George Duran:They also sell camel milk powder.
Yumna Jawad:Okay. Wow. In case you're desperate for some camel milk.
George Duran:Well, I mean, I didn't know you could turn camel milk into something that's edible powder form. They sell whole doves.
Yumna Jawad:Okay.
George Duran:Yeah, yeah. You're trying that.
Yumna Jawad:Nope, I'm not trying that one.
George Duran:I mean, you haven't tried a Cornish hen. The whole dove would be just smaller.
Yumna Jawad:That's true.
George Duran:Okay. Whole iguana.
Yumna Jawad:Oh, no. I can't even do the lie. I can't even, like, go by the Real life ones. Not eating a dead one.
George Duran:Rattlesnake.
Yumna Jawad:Ooh.
George Duran:It's common here in the US I've seen people eat rattlesnake. I've heard that they sell python on this website.
Yumna Jawad:Oh, yeah. Interesting. I am so not hungry anymore.
George Duran:Here's where it gets crazier. Are you ready for this?
Yumna Jawad:Maybe.
George Duran:This website sells beaver meat.
Yumna Jawad:Oh, my gosh.
George Duran:In sausage form. Don't worry.
Yumna Jawad:Okay.
George Duran:Opossum tail.
Yumna Jawad:I mean, you eat just the tail.
George Duran:Just the tail.
Yumna Jawad:Just the tail.
George Duran:I don't know what happens to the rest of the opossum, but at least you can eat the tail.
Yumna Jawad:Okay, that's good.
George Duran:Bobcat sausage.
Yumna Jawad:Okay.
George Duran:This is in the United States.
Yumna Jawad:Wow.
George Duran:Yeah. Giraffe hot dogs.
Yumna Jawad:Oh, the different cuts are so interesting to me. It's just like giraffe hot dogs. Not giraffe beef. Like, not giraffe like ground giraffe.
George Duran:Like, well, at the minimum, giraffe neck.
Yumna Jawad:Yeah, yeah, what about that?
George Duran:There's a lot of meat there. Apparently they sell zebra meat on this website.
Yumna Jawad:Okay.
George Duran:Yeah. Creole zebra sausage.
Yumna Jawad:Okay.
George Duran:Yeah. They're not striped.
Yumna Jawad:They're just one color.
George Duran:Yeah. And finally, this one just shocked me. Lion meat.
Yumna Jawad:Lion meat.
George Duran:As long as you can see that it's not an endangered species and they're raised in a farm. Apparently you can sell all these kinds of meat in the United States.
Yumna Jawad:Wow, that's so interesting.
George Duran:Yeah.
Yumna Jawad:I will not be visiting that website anytime soon.
George Duran:If you do, it's called exoticmeatmarcus.com. You can get the meat of the month club as well. So Sausage of the Month club. I'm not sure.
Yumna Jawad:Why are you doing it? Are you subscribing?
George Duran:I like my beef, I like my poultry.
Yumna Jawad:Yeah, you're good with that.Very safe.
George Duran:Yeah, I'll maybe go to, like, bison.
Yumna Jawad:Yeah.
George Duran:I'll tell you one thing. I grew up in Venezuela, okay. We used to go to this baseball stadium all the time. Every, every weekend, constantly go there.
And they would sell these meat skewers before you get into the baseball stadium. They were delicious. Mini meat skewers. A little AREPA on the side of it, too.
Yumna Jawad:Yeah.
George Duran:And one day on the news, there was breaking news that next to the stadium, they busted a cat farm.
Yumna Jawad:Oh, my gosh.
George Duran:And the next day, we had a baseball game to go to, and those guys were gone.
Yumna Jawad:Oh, no.
George Duran:I have eaten cat meat.
Yumna Jawad:Oh, no.
George Duran:Unbeknownst to me, I've eaten cat meat.
Yumna Jawad:Oh, no. See, that's why you can't trust meat at a Baseball game. What are you doing to just even having meat there?
George Duran:I mean, there was no sign that there were cats anywhere meowing or anything like that.
Yumna Jawad:That's because they were dead.
George Duran:They busted that farm. So I have technically eaten cat meat.
Yumna Jawad:Yeah. That's really exciting.
George Duran:You don't want to ask me how it tastes?
Yumna Jawad:How did it taste? You probably didn't know it was cat meat, so probably just tastes like chicken.
George Duran:It tasted delicious.
Yumna Jawad:Oh, really?
George Duran:Yeah, man. It was like, very. I just remember as a kid.
Yumna Jawad:Did it have barbecue sauce on it?
George Duran:No, no, no. It tastes like really lean beef, but very concentrated in flavor. I will never do it again. I've owned cats.
I love cats so much, and the idea of eating one is impossible for me. But I have eaten cat meats.
Yumna Jawad:But now, you know you've eaten. You've checked that off your list.
George Duran:Checked it off my list. Next up, zebra. Yeah.
Yumna Jawad:You just gotta figure out a way to.
George Duran:Yeah. You go to restaurants a lot?
Yumna Jawad:I do, yes.
George Duran:Yeah. And what kind of cuisine do you have?
Yumna Jawad:Not that much, actually.
George Duran:Yeah. And are there sometimes you go to a restaurant and the food just isn't good. Does that happen ever?
Yumna Jawad:Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's bound to happen.
George Duran:Yes. Have you ever found something in your food that shouldn't be there?
Yumna Jawad:I think we've all found a hair or so. Definitely found a piece of hair. And I think it's. It's one of those things where, like, once you see it, you can't unsee it. And you just like.
Then everybody at the table starts, like, becoming an investigator. And everyone is, like, looking at their own food too, and trying to figure out is their hair and theirs.
And all of a sudden, I mean, we're all just like, done eating at that point, you know, and it's just a piece of hair.
George Duran:What's interesting is that the FDA has this food defect levels handbook. It's a handbook that pretty much allows you to go to a certain threshold with the ingredients and what's inside of it when it's considered a defect.
Yumna Jawad:Wow.
George Duran:So there's only so much of something that can a food can have according to the fda.
Yumna Jawad:Yeah.
George Duran:So I went on their website. I went on the FDA website to find out what this food defect level handbook is. And according to them, ketchup can have a mold count of up to 55%.
Yumna Jawad:Wow.
George Duran:I don't know what that means.
Yumna Jawad:That's a lot of mold.
George Duran:And that's a lot of ketchup.
Yumna Jawad:Yeah.
George Duran:That goes to waste. If it has 54%, it's fine.
Yumna Jawad:Yeah, 55%.
George Duran: ground oregano can have up to: Yumna Jawad:What?
George Duran: When it has: Yumna Jawad:Yeah.
George Duran:1250.
Yumna Jawad:It's not allowed.
George Duran:Pull it off the shelf. 50 Grams of ground cinnamon can have up to 400 insect fragments. Or. Or.
Yumna Jawad:Where are these insects coming from?
George Duran:Listen to me. Or 11 rodent hairs.
Yumna Jawad:Ooh. It's very specific.
George Duran:Very. Because if they find 10, that cinnamon is going straight into your cinnamon roll. Yeah, not a problem.
But if there's an 11th hair of a rodent in there, at least the FDA is there to protect it.
Yumna Jawad:And what about cat hair? It's like rodent hair is the only one that's specified.
George Duran:It's specified. Just rodent.
Yumna Jawad:Just rodent hair.
George Duran:Yeah. 10 Grams of ground sage. Nine rodent hares.
Yumna Jawad:Nine rodent hares.
George Duran:So it's a little stricter than teeny meeny miny moe.
Yumna Jawad:We'll go with nine for this one.
George Duran:Yeah. 100 Grams of canned or dried mushrooms. No more than 20 maggots or no more than 75 mites.
Yumna Jawad:Wow.
George Duran:So if there's 74 mites in that can of mushroom, you're good to go.
Yumna Jawad:It's totally okay.
George Duran:Good to go.
Yumna Jawad:I feel so good. I feel so good about the food. Food laws right now.
George Duran:I don't think anyone will eat mushrooms after this.
Yumna Jawad:No.
George Duran:And finally, a cup of cinnamon.
Yumna Jawad:I don't even want to eat cinnamon now either. I love cinnamon.
George Duran:Yeah, well, I'm gonna check my cinnamon. I'm gonna pass it through a refined cinnamon.
Yumna Jawad:Oh, yeah. I'm sifting through that cinnamon from now on.
George Duran:Finally, a cup of canned citrus juice can have no more than five. Wait for it. Fly eggs.
Yumna Jawad:Wow.
George Duran:Yeah.
Yumna Jawad:Fly eggs. Yeah, that's. There's the chance of that coming into your orange juice.
George Duran:Well, citrus juice.
Yumna Jawad:Yeah.
George Duran:And it's a cup of it.
Yumna Jawad:Citrus. Okay.
George Duran:Yeah. So if there's four eggs, it's okay. Drink up.
Yumna Jawad:It's good protein, Probably.
George Duran:Yes. Five fly eggs.
Yumna Jawad:No way.
George Duran:Get it off that shelf.
Yumna Jawad:Get it off that shelf. It's not FDA approved.
George Duran:No, it's not FDA approved. It's an interesting website. It's a food defects level handbook.
Yumna Jawad:Interesting.
George Duran:Yeah. All right, let's take a quick break. When we come back, we'll expose why restaurant menus make mashed potatoes sound like a religious experience.
Then, should you ever complain about a bad meal? Or is silence the safer option? And later on, two gnocchi. Experts try to convince Me that these little blobs of dough deserve all the hype.
All right, I want to go back to talking about restaurants because there are a lot of restaurants here in New York City. Anything in particular you seek for when you come to New York City?
Yumna Jawad:Oh, I'm just. I. It's so exciting here. I'm open to anything and everything. Yeah, I try to, you know, look at TikTok and see what's hot.
I try to talk to some friends and. Yeah. But I love trying different restaurants.
George Duran:When you go to, like, TikTok and you look for restaurants, are you looking for. Are you looking at the food or the way to describe it or their ratings? What are you looking for? Because sometimes I just cannot trust these people.
Yumna Jawad:I know. And I'm. I'm really looking at, like, the ambiance.
A lot of times whenever I'm on vacation, I'm away from home, I'm looking at the ambiance, but I'm also looking at what the plate looks like itself. But then sometimes I'll go online, I'll read the menu just to feel like, okay, what is it showing me and what is it actually telling me? There is.
And just to kind of compare the two.
George Duran:Well, that's interesting you say about the menu, because I've had some issues with some menus. And I recently went to a steakhouse, a high end steakhouse, and I had to write this down.
They had a side dish, and it was called hand whipped yukon gold potatoes kissed with cultured butter. Do you know what it was? It was mashed potatoes.
Yumna Jawad:Mashed potatoes.
George Duran:That's all it was.
Yumna Jawad:The word whipped, I think, is one of those words where whip anything and it just sounds so much more fancy. Just.
George Duran:And that's my problem with a lot of these, like the French words. You add a French word in there, like aioli, which is garlic mayo.
Yumna Jawad:Yeah. Mayonnaise. If you can't say. If you say mayonnaise, it's just. It's worth $2.
George Duran:Yeah.
Yumna Jawad:But if you say aioli, you could charge $19.
George Duran:Thank you very much. Veloute.
Yumna Jawad:Veloute.
George Duran:Veloute is a soup.
Yumna Jawad:Oh, okay.
George Duran:So you're just eating soup. Hey, you want some tomato soup or would you like veloute de tomate? Yeah.
Yumna Jawad:Which is a sauce, basically.
George Duran:That's it.
Yumna Jawad:It's just a sauce.
George Duran:A freaking sauce.
Yumna Jawad:Even Compote. Compote, yes. Compote jam.
George Duran:Thank you. Chiffonade.
Yumna Jawad:Chiffonade.
George Duran:It's a fantastic word.
Yumna Jawad:I love it. I do love that word.
George Duran:It just Means it's thinly sliced, my friend.
Yumna Jawad:Yes, exactly. Or at the end, we're going to.
George Duran:Bump up that price for you because we put that chiffonade in there.
Yumna Jawad:Exactly.
George Duran:So I'm going to play a little game with you over here. I've come up with some luxuriously exaggerated menu items. I want to see if you can guess what I'm talking about.
Yumna Jawad:Oh, okay.
George Duran:All right. This is what I would put in my restaurant just to up the prices.
Yumna Jawad:Okay.
George Duran:Tell me if you can figure out what exactly this food item is.
Yumna Jawad:Okay.
George Duran:Whipped chickpea emulsion with tahini and smoked paprika hummus. Yes. Artisan.
Yumna Jawad:There's the word whipped again.
George Duran:Thank you. Artisan. Hand cut pommes frite accompanied by roasted garlic aioli.
Yumna Jawad:French fries with mayo.
George Duran:Correct. Slow simmered vine ripened tomato reduction over heritage wheat pasta ribbons.
Yumna Jawad:Spaghetti.
George Duran:Spaghetti and tomato sauce. Very good.
Yumna Jawad:Spaghetti and tomato sauce. That's funny.
George Duran:Crisped cured pork belly atop cage free organic egg medallions.
Yumna Jawad:I'm not good with pork. Is it like ham and ch. Say it again.
George Duran:Crisp cured pork belly atop cage free organic egg medallions.
Yumna Jawad:This is just eggs and bacon.
George Duran:That's it. Bacon and eggs. Yes.
Yumna Jawad:I was like cured pork. What does that mean? Yeah, I'm not good with the pork references.
George Duran:Fire charred artisanal dough layered with hand pulled mozzarella and crushed San Marzano essence cheese bread.
Yumna Jawad:Cheese sticks.
George Duran:Keep going. Flatter, rounder.
Yumna Jawad:Flatter rounder.
George Duran:In the oven. Submarizano.
Yumna Jawad:Oh, pizza.
George Duran:Yes.
Yumna Jawad:Oh, just pizza. Just pizza. I'm looking for the tomato sauce.
George Duran:I know. It's a sarmazano tomatoes. And finally, warm breakfast souffle discs with tree tapped amber reduction.
Yumna Jawad:Pancakes with. With treetops with honey. Yes.
George Duran:No, no Amber reduction.
Yumna Jawad:Oh, maple syrup.
George Duran:Thank you very much. Yes, thank you.
Yumna Jawad:Yes.
George Duran:I will be opening up a restaurant soon and I will be listing all of these.
Yumna Jawad:You can charge all. Yeah, you can triple charge with. With those fancy names. Absolutely.
George Duran:Love it. Love it.
Yumna Jawad:Absolutely.
George Duran:Yeah. Yeah. Very much so. All right, so I want to know your experiences in restaurants.
So do people actually come up to you and say at the restaurants and they're like, oh, my gosh, feel good food. I love it. What do they think when you walk in?
Yumna Jawad:Yeah, I do get recognized more now, especially because of TikTok. I think it's like people get TikTok famous and so people come up to me and like, oh, my gosh, feel good foodie. Can you say the catchphrase?
I'm like, so good. And so I just humor them. Take a picture.
George Duran:You know, one of the biggest issues I have in restaurants is that sometimes when the food isn't good, you. You have to send it back. But do you ever. Do you ever send food back at restaurants?
Yumna Jawad:I always do.
If I'm not satisfied, like, if there's something, like, I don't have a problem sending food back, and if there's something that's actually wrong with it. So if I. If I ate, like, 85% of it, I'm not going to send it back.
But if it's cold when it was supposed to be hot, if it was cooked to a different way, then I asked for it to be cooked, if there's something in there that I don't eat, like pork, for example, I will be sending it back.
And then the problem, though, is as soon as I do, my husband feels, like, super nervous, and he feels like we need to get out of the restaurant as quickly as possible. So whenever the dish comes again, he's like, eat fast. We are running out of here.
No one's ordering dessert like we're running, because he gets embarrassed for me. I'm like, why? I. I need to be happy with my meal.
George Duran:Now. That's the risk you take with some of these restaurants, is that you never know if they're gonna sneeze on it Exactly.
Yumna Jawad:By accident.
George Duran:So I'll just eat it.
Yumna Jawad:So, yeah, that's what my husband says. And I'm like, well, no, I'm just gonna try my best and be really nice about it and tell them what I ordered.
George Duran:And so there are different situations. Like if I buy an expensive filet mignon, for example, and it's not cooked medium rare the way I like it, or even rare, for that matter.
Yeah, I gotta send it back.
Yumna Jawad:You have to. Yeah, but absolutely.
George Duran:Again, I'm worried there's gonna be a little bit of an emulsion in there.
Yumna Jawad:Yes.
George Duran:Whatever came out of this guy.
Yumna Jawad:Emulsion is one of those, like, fancy words for just spit.
George Duran:Yeah. So we're gonna play a little game. Are you ready for this?
Yumna Jawad:Yes.
George Duran:It's called I'll just eat it or send it back.
Yumna Jawad:Okay.
George Duran:I'm gonna tell you certain situations in a restaurant that can happen to you, and I want to know if you would eat it or send it back. Ready, Raw or undercooked Chicken.
Yumna Jawad:Send it back.
George Duran:Yeah, you do.
Yumna Jawad:100%. We're getting sick eating that.
George Duran:Yeah.
Yumna Jawad:Yes, of course. Yes. If it's pink, I'm not eating it.
George Duran:Unless it's steak.
Yumna Jawad:Unless it's steak.
George Duran:Yes.
Yumna Jawad:I Will eat pink steak.
George Duran:Okay. Wrong temperature steak.
Yumna Jawad:I'll just eat it.
George Duran:Soggy fries.
Yumna Jawad:Send it back. They need to be crispy. Yeah.
George Duran:All right.
Yumna Jawad:Yeah. What's the point? You have to enjoy the carbs and the calories. If I am taking in those carbs and the calories, it needs to be worth it.
George Duran:Yeah, but you can put enough ketchup in there that it'll taste good.
Yumna Jawad:No. And then just, like, limping the.
George Duran:Hey, nothing wrong with that. Wilted lettuce.
Yumna Jawad:I'll just eat it.
George Duran:Come on.
Yumna Jawad:Yeah.
George Duran:You're not a cow.
Yumna Jawad:I know, but I'm just like, well, it's fine. It's the same. It's not worth it. That's the kind of thing they're going to spit on for you. Because wilted to me may not be wilted to them.
George Duran:Like, wait, what if the salad comes and it's wilted? You're going to keep eating that salad?
Yumna Jawad:Yeah. It's not worth. It's not worth the spit because they can easily mix that spit with the dressing. Like, that's not worth it to me.
George Duran:Yeah. I don't know. I think it's worth the spit. It could be tasty.
Yumna Jawad:It almost has to be, like, worth the spit. Or not.
George Duran:Yeah. Right. Overcooked pasta.
Yumna Jawad:Mm. I'll send it back.
George Duran:Really?
Yumna Jawad:Yeah, because it's mushy and it just, like. It ruins the texture. And then you just, like, your mouth just starts to, like, get all, like, weird. I can't.
George Duran:What kind of pasta are you eating?
Yumna Jawad:I think it needs to be al dente. It needs to be. I just came back from Italy, too, so you're asking me at the wrong time. Maybe ask me in six months and I won't be as picky.
George Duran:Right. Like, Mac and cheese, Overcooked macaroni.
Yumna Jawad:Just slurp it down. Fine. Exactly.
George Duran:All right, I'm eating it. Personally, I'm eating it.
Yumna Jawad:Okay.
George Duran:Too spicy. Like, overly spicy?
Yumna Jawad:It depends if I'm crying. If I start crying, I'm sending it back. If I. If I'm not crying, I'm good. I can. I can handle a little bit. I mean, I grew up in Africa.
They used to drop, like, whole peppers inside of stews, and my mom would always make a separate one for me because I can't handle it too much. But I've definitely eaten some really spicy.
George Duran:Food, but the portions are too small. Would you.
Yumna Jawad:I'll just eat it, suck it up, and go somewhere else to eat afterwards. Or order two desserts.
George Duran:You're too kind. You're Too nice burnt pizza.
Yumna Jawad:Ugh. I can't do the burnt pizza because my mom's voice starts going in my head about, like, oh, the. What is it? The carcinogens of anything black.
You're not supposed to eat black food. So I feel like her voice is what's telling me to send it back.
George Duran:I would send it back too. I mean, a whole piece is burnt, and they do that because they don't know the temperature of the oven.
Yumna Jawad:And sometimes they're not cleaning it well too. So there's, like, things in there that flare up and cause that. So it's their fault. They should not be burning that pizza.
Like maggots and maggots and rabbit hair.
George Duran:Okay, very good. And finally, if it smells weird, 100%,.
Yumna Jawad:We're sending it back. Yes. I have a thing about smells. I can't. I can't deal with that.
George Duran:Yes. This is fantastic. I'm really glad he came on the show. Yumna Jawad. Thank you so much. Feel Good Foodie is the social media site.
Yumna Jawad:Yes.
George Duran:And online, they can find you where.
Yumna Jawad:Feel Good Foodie everywhere. I'm on Instagram and TikTok and the website and all over.
George Duran:And check out her book too. It looks fantastic. Your food is fantastic. Congratulations on having so many followers.
Yumna Jawad:Thank you so much.
George Duran:Next time, 20 million followers. Let's take over the world.
Yumna Jawad:Yeah. And next time, let's talk about something more appetizing.
George Duran:Oh, we always talk about appetizing things. Thanks a lot for being on the show.
Yumna Jawad:Thank you so much, George.
George Duran:All right, after the break, I'll sit down with with two Italians to settle one of life's most important debates. What makes the perfect gnocchi? We'll be right back. Welcome back.
My guests today are Nicholas Wooler and Alessandro Sita, founders of Nocca, a company that's trying to do something almost nobody else has done. Build a modern food brand around gnocchi. Not pizza, not pasta, not gelato. Gnocchi.
They've launched packaged products, opened a restaurant in New York City, and somehow decided that betting on potato dumplings was less risky than a normal career. Alex and Nick, thanks for being on the show.
Nicholas Wooller:Thank you. Good to be here.
George Duran:Hey, George, why gnocchi?
Alessandro Sita:It's convenient. It's delicious. As we were running the ground, we found out that not many people were had an opportunity to be exposed to that yet.
So let's do something, you know, interesting.
George Duran:Yeah. And the convenience part, like, I mean, gnocchi is so easy to prepare. Once it's prepared, of course.
So you can easily freeze it or just have a pre made. I mean I've seen gnocchi at the supermarket outside a refrigerator. Are those okay to eat?
Nicholas Wooller:Yes, yes, that's ours.
So we actually worked a lot on the recipe and we worked with the university to create the first preservative free gnocchi that can stay out of the fridge. So you have a real Italian recipe. Great, great taste. And yes, like you said, it's a two minute preparation.
So everybody can prepare those gnocch and very difficult to mess up.
George Duran:Can you trust a pasta company that doesn't have someone who has some sort of Italian accent?
Nicholas Wooller:Not too much.
George Duran:What do you think about Americans taking something like higher end cuisine, like Italian cuisine from Italy and giving it their own kind of twist to it or starting there? How did that all happen?
Nicholas Wooller:Well, you know, I'm Italian, but I think now it's 15 years. When I came in the US I was shocked, to be honest. The way they cook the pasta, the type of sauce they put, they're mixing everything.
I have to be honest. I think it's a great thing.
And we need that wake up call as Italian because sometimes we so stuck in tradition, us allow us to mix everything and sometimes, you know, when you try to mix and make experiment, there's great things that come out. So I'm pretty happy personally of what's happening in the US food scene right now.
George Duran:Yeah, I've never heard of a stubborn Italian in my life.
Nicholas Wooller:Yes, nice to meet you.
George Duran:Yeah, exactly. Or a snob Italian. I mean, every Italian friend of mine from Italy, I mean their motto is the Italians are the best.
Nicholas Wooller:Everybody knows that.
George Duran:Yeah, except you're not in the World Cup.
Nicholas Wooller:That hurts.
George Duran:So, okay, so I understand what you think of Italian American cuisine.
And honestly, I think one of the reasons that Italian American cuisine is so different from Italian cuisine is when the immigrants came here, there was more of that Southern influence. And obviously the ingredients weren't found here as well. There's a lot of reasons why the cuisine is so different.
And also Italy just evolves into more of a modern, a little more sophisticated. How did you have to adapt to the restaurant for that? Or did you kind of stick more with the American Italian traditions?
Alessandro Sita:So to me, this is a topic that is very exciting and interesting. Cuisine has been evolving everywhere all the time.
So for us, understanding that early on and having great interest in quality right at the base of everything, there's that the decision to find the best quality in everything we do. Embracing change, embracing adaptation, cultural demand and all of that. It's exciting.
So when you come to the restaurant, you have what we think or we believe is the best rendition of the classics, because it's good to carry over that cultural tradition. But at the same time, we are always open to hear and excited about people, how they are adapting the product to the way they like it or they want it.
And this is allowing us also to experiment a lot.
George Duran:I'm really glad you brought this up, because I have some really interesting food trends that I always cover, and I figured out a few lists of food trends that maybe can translate to gnocchi. And I want your honest reaction to that, because these are real trends that are happening here in the United States.
We're going to play a little game called gnocchi or gnocchi.
Alessandro Sita:Okay.
George Duran:Meaning I'm not interested. All right, so here it is. Gnocchi or gnocchi. Movie theater butter popcorn. Gnocchi made with blended popcorn, brown butter powder.
Alessandro Sita:It's a gnocchi for me.
Nicholas Wooller:Agreed. Yes.
George Duran:Oh, this is a good one. Everything bagel, cream cheese, gnocchi. So you have cream cheese in the dough. You have that rolled with everything seasoning on that.
Alessandro Sita:I would probably take the flavor profile of that and maybe see if we can do something good with gnocchi.
Nicholas Wooller:No, thank you.
George Duran:Flaming hot cheetos. Gnocchi crushing crushed flaming hot cheetos. Make it spicy.
Nicholas Wooller:I can see that one.
Alessandro Sita:Yeah, I would think so.
Nicholas Wooller:Yeah, I can see that one.
George Duran:You put flaming hot Cheetos on anything, sure will eat it. Sure. The Mexicans did it with a corn, and it's marvelous. Yeah, sure.
Nicholas Wooller:The spice is really a big trend right now. And it's true. It's.
George Duran:What if you took it to Italy, do you think they would eat it there?
Nicholas Wooller:We would put Calabrian peppers at that point.
George Duran:Of course. Calabrian Cheetos, Sure. Okay, very good. Hot honey gnocchi. Hot honey is huge.
Nicholas Wooller:Yes, yes, yes.
George Duran:Big one here. Kimchi gnocchi.
Alessandro Sita:I would see that.
George Duran:Right?
Nicholas Wooller:Maybe I don't know what kinkychi is.
George Duran:Okay, well, that's a problem. Yes. Okay. It's fermented cabbage.
Nicholas Wooller:Oh, yes, yes, yes, yes.
George Duran:So I'm going to list a few of the American Italian foods here, and you tell me if you find these in Italy or not. You ready? Chicken parm.
Nicholas Wooller:No.
George Duran:Okay. Spaghetti and meatballs.
Nicholas Wooller:Yes.
George Duran:You do have spaghetti and meatballs? Sure. Okay, Very good. Fettuccine Alfredo.
Yumna Jawad:Very difficult. It's starting now. I think the trend came back from the US Into Italy, thanks to social media.
Now there's some trendy new Italian restaurant I want to propose the Italian American cuisine from. From Brooklyn. Right.
George Duran:I mean, if you want to compare the American cuisine here, I mean, you're talking about 250 years over here compared to what, thousands of years in Italy. I mean, it's evolved and it's evolved because of whatever you're growing there.
Alessandro Sita:I think it's broadening the regional presence. Right.
So for many years there's been a strong regional characterization of Italian food being more typical or inspired by ingredients that were more available in the southern of Italy, for example.
And this belongs to the migration and all of that which has been more prominent, as you say, as food becomes more accessible and the supply chain is providing the same ingredients we have in Italy, for example, at the part of what you will get in Italy. Yeah, I think the original exploration of Italian food, it's happening. It's been happening for some time. It's not like it's happening now.
And the beauty of it is that it gets here and there's already an influence. There are influences from other cultures too. Right. We talk about kimchi gnocchi, for example, or Cheetos gnocchi.
And we were not too estranged by that because we know that here it's possible there's less resistance. And that's what keeps us, or at least keeps the project we're working on engaged and one to one with the consumer, which is extremely exciting.
George Duran:Do you think we're going to lose the basis of Italian cuisine or even French cuisine? Do you think we're going to lose that a little bit?
Alessandro Sita:I think the staples, they prove themselves to be extremely pleasurable for such a long time that we will always go back to that.
But even the Italian culture, the Italian food culture that we like to think that we can span throughout the entire Italian culture, which, like you said, is thousands of years, but it really established itself in the modern era where ingredients became more available, approachable. And we also imported a lot of stuff. Tomatoes and spaghetti weren't there 600 years ago.
George Duran:And Italian cuisine is extremely regional as well.
Alessandro Sita:Yes.
George Duran:Is it going to stay regional for the coming decades?
Alessandro Sita:There's a lot of resistance.
Younger generations are going back to harvest because it was driven by what was available regionally, which is heavily influenced by what you can grow.
Yumna Jawad:And one very, very good thing about Italian food in general, at least that's what we're trying to break the message here.
At least you touching on America and Italy, you don't have to break the bank to have good Italian food in Europe here is just starting because we felt like when we get to the US you can find very good Italian food. But it was just like for certain people, because of the cost, it's. I mean, everything is expensive everywhere, I guess, but not the food.
In Italy, you can eat very well and you don't have to break the bank. And so that's, that's the mission. Also we on quality, but accessible to everybody.
George Duran:Yeah. I've never met an Italian from Italy who can't cook. Is that changing?
Alessandro Sita:Oh, yes, it is. Sometimes I think I would say, yes, I can cook.
George Duran:You still have some gray. So I can cook. I'm talking about the youth. Are they going more for the fast food?
Yumna Jawad:So you're saying I'm not that young anymore?
George Duran:Well, definitely younger than me. But my point is, is it starting to trend for the fast food because people have less time or is it because they're just.
Yumna Jawad:They don't want to learn the convenience? Yes, for sure.
Alessandro Sita:Well, the convenience is playing a factor and, but the, the standard, the bar is high. And I think businesses in Italy, for Italians are going an extra length in terms of providing pre made, prepared, partially prepared food that it's.
That it's still nutritious quality and all of that. So there's always a trade, a trade off. Right. It doesn't matter really what you're having. Right.
I mean, it is primary, the quality of what you're having, but it's secondary. How true to what you had as a children is.
George Duran:I don't know. I like where I am here. And as long as I can bring some of that Italian love and culture, and that's what I love about Italian Americans.
They are bringing that social aspect of cuisine into their home. That family table is massive in the Italian American home, and I love that more than anything else.
Even if you're not serving turkey for Thanksgiving, there's going to be a lot of food and a lot of people.
Alessandro Sita:Exactly. And a lot of fun.
George Duran:So tell me a little bit about Noka. Noka is in 250 Mott street here in New York City. You're serving gnocchi. You have a pomodoro, vodka pesto, caciopep, carbonara, bolognese. Simple.
Alessandro Sita:We're strong believers that you can do very well a few things at a time. So we are very dedicated.
George Duran:Yeah. And gnocchi. Gnocchi, which is your gnocchi that you sell at the markets or the supermarkets?
Yumna Jawad:Yes.
George Duran:Where do we find that?
Alessandro Sita:So we are expanding distribution and the restaurant is helping. Also, sometimes people may not know what gnocchi is.
We've been talking with a lot of people that never tried before or can't pronounce it or can't pronounce it, or they know what it is. They don't know if they like it.
But now we have other consumers more adventurous or those who like gnocchi already and they want to try it that are vouching for what we're doing.
George Duran:Yeah. Well, Nicolas Wooler and Alessandro Sita. Noka is the name of the restaurant. Nocca Gnocchi is the name of the gnocchi.
You can find them@nocca co n o c c a co. Right, correct.
Yumna Jawad:Correct.
George Duran:And you can find out where they sell it. I look forward to tasting some of your gnocchi.
Yumna Jawad:Yes. And you have to try the new Amatriana just came out. Delicious.
George Duran:If I knew what amatriciana was, I would probably love it.
Alessandro Sita:Yeah, it's there. We look forward to seeing you there.
George Duran:Thank you so much, guys. Thanks for being on the show.
Alessandro Sita:Thank you, George.
George Duran:And for all our listeners out there, thanks for hanging with us. Follow us on the Always Hangry podcast, wherever you get your podcasts. And Visit [email protected] for episodes, updates, and much more.
I'm George Duran. Until next time, stay hungry.
